Note from BW of Brazil: It’s a long, ongoing debate that we’ve touched upon on this blog on numerous occasions. It never fails. Black man. Famous? Educated? Money? White woman. Many black Brazilian women believe that this has in fact become the rule. Before diving into a topic that won’t be dying down anytime soon, let’s first recognize that official statistics according to the IBGE show that about 69% of marriages in Brazil feature two people of the same race. But there are several other important factors to consider beyond this data. First consider the official color categories in Brazil. Branco/white, pardo/brown or mulato, preto/black, amarelo/yellow or Asian and indígena/indigenous or Indian.
Among whites, 74.5% marry other whites. 68.5% of browns marry each other. 65% of indigenous people marry within their own group. But among blacks, only 36.9% of the men marry black women while 50.3% of black women marry black men. This means that among black men, 63% prefer to marry brown or white women. To be clear, pardos, according to Brazil’s Movimento Negro (black movement) are considered part of the black population. Thus, many of the women that black men are marrying are from the pardo group. But the phenotype of this pardo group runs the spectrum from very fair-skinned or nearly white, to brown-skinned. But a large percentage of women they marry are also from the white group. As such, women who consider themselves to be black clearly have a point in terms of black men marrying outside of the group. One doctoral thesis found that in the city of São Paulo, out of 50 black male executives (already an extreme minority), 48 or 49 were married to white women.
But the stats don’t tell the whole tale of the situation. Anyone who has ever spent time in three of Brazil’s largest cities, São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and Belo Horizonte, can attest to the fact that on some days it seems difficult to even find black couples! A report out of the majority black city of Salvador, Bahia, also attests to a growing trend in that city. Statistics may show that nearly 70% of all married couples in Brazil are of the same color, but this number includes all age brackets. Taking this into consideration means that excluding the couples who have been married for, say, 25-30 years would most likely increase the number of interracial marriages quite a bit. Other studies confirm the difficulty of black women finding life-long partners and spending longer periods single.
The stats also don’t figure in the opinions of numerous black women who share the belief that black men mistreat them, ignore them, only have interest in sexual relations, abandon them with children for white women and many other horrific situations. These are regular discussions that happen among black women in social networks. The response of most black men to the accusations? “Amor não tem cor”, meaning ‘love doesn’t have color’. In a sense, it’s become the standard response to the accusations. But is ‘love’ the only thing that’s going on here? For many black women, this is simply not the only reason for so many black men crossing the color (1). The piece below gets right to the point! And if that’s not enough, check out some of the comments included at the end of the piece!
Does love have a standard?
by Scarlett Rodrigues
If you are a white woman, thin, rich, straight hair, you will say that love has no color, that you are attracted to people and not by color and I have advance warning: GET OUT OF YOUR BUBBLE.
Come on, analyzing the scale of society: where do you find yourself? White men are first, the highest peak, then we can say that white women and then the black man and finally, yes finally, the black woman. And I say this covering “x” items such as money, sexuality, social position, status, housing, education, etc.
And restricting this logic to the case of relationships, we come across black woman (lesbian, bisexual, transgender, fat, short …) always last in preference of society – in which the number of lonely black women and who have a history of abusive relationships, loaded with prejudice and racism is notorious.
The black woman, lesbian, bisexual, single mother, older, fat, trans and even heterosexuals suffer more than anyone else in this society. And I will explain why:
The black woman is not seen as a PRETTY WOMAN for the simple fact that due to white culture being predominant, seeing that the same was the most cannibalistic culture – promoting their culture through the theft of others, it said what is beautiful and what is not.
And today this standard is notorious: WHITE, THIN, LIGHT-COLORED EYES, STRAIGHT HAIR, RICH.
This would be the ideal woman seen by society and everything that goes against this is ugly, dirty, and we see this in EVERY TV commercial, in movies, in the street advertisements, in modeling runways, in pieces of clothing. Where the black women are never successful, are always employed, waitresses, single mothers. Always white models. Commercial for shampoo: have you seen a black showing off their blacks (afros) and their crespos (curly kinks) and cachos (curls)? NO. Have you seen shampoo for cabelo crespo (kinky curly hair)? Have you ever seen on TV a black protagonist that was not objectified? The famous mulatas, that is not empowering, which is exhibition, the sale of bodies, objectification of black women, why don’t we have this with white women? Why always in those programs of fixing up the woman do they always leave her looking more similar to what is beautiful for them? Always with straight hair, light makeup to make them closest possible to the standard.
Black women mutilate themselves daily to achieve the standard. They use chemicals, straighten, chapinha (flat/straightening iron), use lighter makeup, do crazy diets, all for what? TO FIT WITHIN STANDARD. And to please whom? AS MUCH FOR WHITES AS FOR BLACKS. Why? BECAUSE AS MANY WHITE MEN AND WOMEN AS BLACK MEN AND WOMEN PREFER WHITE MEN AND WOMEN. And why do they prefer white men and women? BECAUSE THE STANDARD, PRE-ESTABLISHED SINCE colonialism, SINCE THE EARLY DAYS, WHERE WHITE CULTURE COMMANDED AND IT BECAME ENROOTED IN PEOPLE UNTIL TODAY TO SAY THAT BEING WHITE, THIN, TALL, STRAIGHT IS WHAT IS BEAUTIFUL.
A BLACK woman is simply seen as a woman good for sex. A woman of a “caliente” (hot), fiery color, that fucked a lot in the era of colonialism (aka raped), who has a well designed body, who likes sex and has sex well, since this is the view given by white men. A fruit of colonialism.
The BLACK woman suffers in relationships whether or not they are hetero-normative because the black woman as I mentioned already was not made for serious relationships but to have sex. White society says so. To present a black woman to the family no one wants, to present as a girlfriend nobody wants, even more so if the relationship is interracial.
The BLACK woman suffers from loneliness more than any other woman, because when she relates to white men or white women they just want, in a hidden way, to have sex. But the black woman doesn’t serve to occupy the post of girlfriend, only lover, because allllwwwwaaayyysss white men will prefer the standard because of status, to display a girl that is seen as beautiful to society. With this, he earns credit, status, fame (sexism and racism together). And when the black women relate to black men or women the same thing happens, the black men and women tend to prefer white women for the same reasons. And another crucial reason is embranquecimento (whitening), because of the idea that blacks were cursed because of being born black and if they would marry with white women they would not be born as black and would not be so cursed, where the logic behind it all was so strong that it permeates even up to the present day. Unconsciously or not, black men and women still use this logic to justify the supposed “attraction” for white women and white men. Thus, they prefer white women, leaving the black woman alone again, behind.
These are the basic points that are behind the loneliness of black women. However, putting the vision more to the group, can you see how the system is oppressive to us? How painful and suffering all of this is? And that love has color, yes! Love does have a standard, yes!
When you choose to relate with someone, this person needs to have besides intellect something physical that attracts you, and that is where the color palette that says who you should and should not love comes in. I’ve known cases of people who ended a relationship because they didn’t want to see themselves at the side of a black woman, but she said that she loved her – but color always speaks louder. How many black women mutilate themselves to please you whites? To try to fit in and manage to be perceived and dear to you all? Without knowing THEY WILL NEVER BE!
What I saw participating in a feminist group was the exaltation of an already pre-established standard of beauty that I already cited above. I could see how the reactions to seeing photos of girls totally deified by society were. The accolades were different in comparison with the few black women that pronounced themselves. And what does this provoke in us? Besides that idea that European feminism does not contemplate us, is that in a space of deconstruction, of the acceptance of your body, of what you are: it does not happen!
Many girls have problems with their bodies, and then think, “Look a group is super-welcoming, I will introduce myself also.” There are faced with “x” standard exaltations of “the white”, “the thin”, they give up from posting because they did not fit in this and believe that they would not be well received and that would end their self-esteem. So, do you see the seriousness of this?
And another thing that this problematic reverberates with us is that with this we are forced to want that they notice us, and we began to talk like you, to act like you, to praise you, to deify them to see if you notice us, to see if you integrate us into the world of you all that is quite different from ours.
Only that many black women who submit themselves to this don’t manage to see the logic behind it, where we black women can walk among you, talk like you, YOU WILL NEVER bbuuttt, and NEVER WE BE YOU ALL, and NEVER WILL WE BE A PART OF YOUR WORLD. Because in one way or another, you whites “put us in our place.” In other words: don’t mix, it’s all a facade, the black woman begs for attention, begs for love and the white woman pretends to give it white and then the black woman is disappointed when they are exchanged for a standardized one.
To conclude I want to say: no one here is begging for attention from whites. I’m not asking, “White woman, look at me, want me.” Because it is to request that you deny your standards of beauty which for many is painful. The only thing we’re hitting on the keyboard here is for you to review your concepts.
You preach so much the idea of de-standardization, of chubby women we accept you, we accept you black women, but all this has a limit, I even accept you as a friend, but relationship, no. I accept you up to such a point.
And still they come to tell me that love has no standard? It does! And this standard is visible, and everything that does not fit in it is neglected, then what feminism is this that you all preach so much? Intersectional? Are you sure? I’m not saying that whites are obligated to love blacks. For me, really? Fuck the love of whites! But I demand respect, I demand that they revise their concepts, not having to love something that is not of the standard, but recognize this monumental failure that you have in saying that love doesn’t see color, it doesn’t see body, it doesn’t see financial situation, that love conquers all, surpasses all, my ass!
I see a lot of black woman suffering because of a man and because of a woman, suffering within feminist groups who claim to be welcoming, but when a black woman exposes herself they don’t care, they prefer to give attention to white women because it is already something ingrained in you all.
So therefore, the only person who can change this concept, this ideology is you yourself that is reading this text. You with your intimate, asking yourself: why do I prefer a white woman? Would I be scared, ashamed to date a black woman? A fat woman? An older woman? Why would I? What leads me to say and to exalt the white woman? Answering this you find the exit.
Only in this way, don’t come demanding patience because we have no obligation to massage words in order not to hurt anyone. Why do I have to have that concern and you don’t?
Every white is racist, understand this too! You reproduce racism daily, having maids, that are usually black women (which is a problem much bigger than just racism), the suspect that you have in seeing a black man on the street, white women with straight hair that criticize the crespo (curly/kinky) of the irmãs (sisters), it’s that thing: I think it’s beautiful, but I wouldn’t, objectifying the black woman only for sex, mess around a little and the rest she’s not good for, and so on, there are so many things that you white people do and don’t even realize, you think that racism and prejudice is when it’s all in a shameless way, but those that are veiled, masked are the worst these hurt much more!
And it is noteworthy that using arguments like: I’m not racist I’ve already dated black men or black women or I’m not gordofóbica (anti-fat people), I have a fat sister, or have a tatatataravô (great-great-great grandfather) that is black so I know the oppression that blacks go through so I can speak of the struggle, I just say: SHUT UP. This doesn’t give you the right to speak for the protagonists, and having dated a black man or black woman does not make you less racist, have dated a chubby man or woman proves nothing of how prejudiced you are, it’s just one more excuse, so don’t come using relatives, friends, situations of your life to illustrate its justification when you were trapped by racism, gordofobia, transphobia … it will not minimize the fact that you have prejudices and are racists.
And to finalize I already said that I don’t brown nose for any white, for any wealthy, it’s not prejudice, simply a reaction of who has been oppressed forever, so I don’t demand such of the sisterhood (which is a white word, because I always see white women preaching sisterhood among only white women) with racist people, transphobics and gordofóbicas.
Because this here is something I don’t do is sugarcoat for anyone! I am radical yes, I don’t like to see my sisters suffering and subjecting themselves to please whites in order to be inserted in the society and in a group. I say more: WE DO NOT NEED THAT, we are descended from RAINHAS (QUEENS), from Egypt, from Africa, we do not lick the floor of whites to be inserted in society, because it will never put us in, and I don’t brown nose for whites. Whoever has a debt with me are they, not I, as they always breastfed from the breasts of our ancestors, they laid their bodies on top of our ancestors without their permission, and today, on their behalf, by the strength and endurance that these thousands of women had is I don’t kiss the floor of whites, I don’t suck white dick and not even white coochie for them to let enter me in their context.
I just want respect and if you don’t give it to me of free will, I’ll take it by force, you put a finger on the wound, burst our bubble, it’s because of this that we always have to scream, talk loud in order not be silenced. Here is a resistant black woman, yes, a black warrior, yes, and that will not let cheap and not even let pass unnoticed standardization and racism and other forms of oppression! What feminism is this that you preach? You all lack a re-reading of many things that you say!
Note from BW of Brazil: Here, we present just a sample of the endless debates that happen everyday on this theme. To be fair, the vast majority of Brazilians one meets will surely tell you that “love has no color”, but the comments below represent only a snippet of the conclusions that many black Brazilian women are coming to after decades of the “racial democracy” myth, “we are all equal” rhetoric and the belief that “love has no color” which in some ways avoids a serious dialogue on an issue that is leaving hundreds of thousands of black women alone at the altar waiting for a “shining black prince”. The comments below are not direct responses to the above article, but are in fact opinions that deal with interracial relationships, the perceived attitudes of black men, and black women being “left out in the cold”. (Comments in the original Portuguese included at the bottom)
Ene: In Brazil normally the men with a stable financial situation don’t marry a black woman
Itala: Here in Brazil it’s becoming the rule. The black man with a white woman, whitening is happening and the black woman always remains in the corner as much with the white man (that one already expects) and now with the black man. This song defines this!
Itala: “White woman for marriage, black woman to have sex” (2)
Ene: We are fans of various black singers and none of them married a black woman
Itala: I removed black singers reproducers of racism from my list of music. One thing that I hate is a sell-out black man.
Ana C: Not all black people that are with white people are sell-out sand I don’t think that’s non-admirable intellectually only because of this fact. I see this type of thought with prejudice and distrust. On the other side, I agree that in a society in which the white is the standard, the beautiful, that unconsciously many black people seek a white person, even with this idea of whitening the family. I consider myself a well-educated person of good intellectual instruction and on racial questions but that during my trajectory I almost haven’t had contact with black men. What do I do in this case – wait for a black man to appear? And who said that he would be an honest, working, intellectual man who is not afraid of a decisive, feminist woman with a “strong” opinion? I think this type of thought is a little extreme, although it makes quite a bit of sense everything that I ended up reading.
Hirlanna: I believe that love doesn’t classify you but it’s a fact that more than 80% of the black men are with white women! Whitening in relationships does exist, we cannot be hypocrites!
Dulce: I believe in love. When one thinks that a black man can’t be with a white woman and vice versa then intolerance begins. My daughter’s father is white. We were married for 12 years. Is there any problem? No. He is a person and I am another. This is the most ridiculous idea.
Heloise: People, as some have thought, we’re not dealing with a case of intolerance with “interracial” relationships, which would be a stupid thing as with any other type of intolerance. We’re dealing with (re)thinking of the construction of our identity and our choices from this point.
Deise: And what would the middle class black woman’s option be in the middle of all of this? Because middle class black guys don’t even seem to notice your presence and among the white middle class guys some will notice your presence and will make a question of speaking to you. I had a very concrete opinion in relation to this, but ultimately I started to change because what should be done? I should keep waiting for a black man to give me the value I deserve? To notice that I exist and recognize my beauty as some white men appear to do? This is the issue.
Leonel: Using the cliche term “love has no color”, when there are numerous data that prove the solitude of the black woman is like blocking the sun with a strainer. This romanticism diffused with the basis in miscegenation shouldn’t have a place for those that pride themselves in not following common sense. At the most, I believe in afro-centered love as one of the forms, if not the greatest of redeeming our identity as black people. In the meantime, don’t close my eyes to, as I emphasized, to the solitude of our sisters and I understand their reception to whoever seeks them for something that goes beyond superficial contact, regardless of ethnicity. Love does have color!
Ana: The article is revealing (as always). In terms of relationship and formation of family, black men desire any “accessible” woman and black women desire a “black man” more committed to his family and his ethnicity. We blacks are influenced by Brazilian racism to love whites. And the love of the white is generally conditioned by economic condition or by the ideology of “good in bed”. The black man should recognize the value of the black woman and intend to form with her a STRONG BOND. Only in this way will we advance (in my humble opinion).
Andreia – Good commentary as I already said and everybody knows and sees in the great majority of times 98% of the Brazilian men of African descent opt for white women with shame and rejection of their own race.
Domenica – I dream of dating a black man, but haven’t had a chance! Each year that goes by it’s more difficult!!! It’s a shame, our black women are very beautiful!!! But still I have an ounce of hope.
Grazi – I confess that my worst deception of love was with a black man that is the father of my son that doesn’t even call the boy and traded me for a blond when he got money in his hand. I dated white men and when they decide to accept a black woman they treat her well but it’s not all that are willing to face the prejudice of society or from their family. Being this way makes it complicated for us black women stipulate a color to have a relationship. We have to opt for what is good for us in that we like more, in my case a black man….LOL. I have faith that I will find one that loves me, respects me and stays with me until the end of our lives.
Souza – Indeed…They see how many beautiful and cute black women that are in a group full of beautiful black women, of all ages, degrees and complexions and the black men above continue preaching “love has no color”, in other words, I’m with who I wish meaning that they are really wanting to use their GAWW (grab a white woman) card. The majority of them are men raised without a father…a great, battling black mother but that goes years or her whole life without hearing ‘I Love You’ or making love or getting a hug and/or being called beautiful. There it is Carlos
Nzinga – For me, love has color indeed! I will never lay down in bed with an oppressor, but to each his own.
Souza – Our group is not against interracial love but in favor of Afro-centered love. Knowing this, it would be very good persons would avoid keep saying this all the time because we are not obligated to keep reading little lies. Interracial love is not lacking because this IS ALREADY THE RULE…They don’t see that what we are doing is an act of consciousness raising? It’s not NORMAL black men choosing the white women and the white men also. The day that this data were equal, as many white couples, black couples, interracial couples, we would stop speaking. I am the owner of the group and if I were ‘against’ it I would have to kill my own mother. Daniela
Jessica – Girls, regardless of having suffered disillusions with white women, they will continue opting for white women. Why do we have to keep on with this talk of this black man disappointed me? White men are not the solution of our problems, they are the collaborators.
Grazi – (There’s) nothing better than opining on what you have experienced. I have leftover reasons for not accepting a black man in my bed but I will not judge all because of one…I love black men, I want to have a black family and I want an Afro-centered love indeed, I want to love above all!
Souza – This is not an excuse. Your black man traded you for a blond because he is an alienated black man. He didn’t learn to love himself and because of this the color white is his target. Not even because of this can you take it out on all because of one. And if a white man were was really all of this, you wouldn’t even be alone.
Comments in original Portuguese
Source: Festival Marginal, O Globo
Note
1. Also important to note here is that a number of high-profile black women are also married to white men in Brazil. In the numerous social network debates that this writer has analyzed, black men are quick to point this out. The difference that I note is that I rarely if ever see debates initiated in which black men complain about black women marrying non-black men. Usually this accusation is only stated when the accusation is first made of black men. Among the general population, the statistics support the argument of black women. The attitude of black men in this respect seems to be it doesn’t really matter who black women marry or if they don’t if fact marry because they, as a group, will continue to marry who they like regardless of any accusation.
2. A well-known Brazilian saying that has appeared in a number of posts.
Is it cowardice to save ones self or ones children from persecution by intermixing or intermarrying with the dominant oppressors. Intermixing is by no streach of the imagination always about falling in love. There can be no mistake that there have been and are members of Black America that seek to escape the horrors of racism by merging with the oppressor in the desire to “join the winning team.”
This idea of “jumping the fence” has many implications, such as self betrayal. The conscious desicion to abandon one’s own people and the struggle we live through day to day for survival . To preserve thine self in the face of terrifying odds. There is also the implication of those of our people who are stricken with the “adoration of Angloes.” It is said that opposites attract yet we are dealing with much more than that. There are those of our people who believe what are considered white or Alglican features and or culture to be desirable, even superior if not to themselves then to the rest of the world. When we consider the villainization and denigration of Black people by the domineering Anglicans we are presented with a situation that must be addressed.
What kind of person does not champion themselves or celebrate and cherish the beauty and attributes of their own people and culture especially in the light of a real and present threat to both? To examine this term or idea of “color blindness.” To be color blind in a society that is extremely elitist, classist and racist one may as well also assume the labels of deaf, and dumb. This idea of blindness becomes a convenient excuse for abandoning ones race and also acts as a new manifestation for pure racism. All the horrble things I am doing to you are not racist because…”I’m color blind.”
The beauty and humanity of Black people has largely been invisible in ultra-racist America and Brazil, because it is denied, because it is ignored. After everything we have come through, to now arrive at a point where our identities no longer exist is tantamount to ethnic death or social suicide. We are not all the same, some of us are Indigenous to this land and our ancestors matter just as we matter. Some of us survived a hell on Earth journey in the bowels of slave ships and our ancestors walked through fire for our survival and they matter, as we matter.
It is self betrayal to forget who we are and from whence we have come. To forget or betray the ancestors is to walk in a state of living death. We are surely not all the same and this is a beautiful thing. One can consider abandoning ones people and ancestors for a blind existence. If a person needs to be blind and pretend that I am colorless/Blackless/nothing in order to respect me then I DO NOT NEED SUCH RESPECT! I will also say, to hop the fence in some attempt to “save one’s own or to kiss anothers ass” is one thing but to then open ones mouth against the people one formerly hail from is one of the lowest, most cowardly and treacherous acts.
You can’t keep sending your children to White established schools, work for White owned Corporations, watch White television programs, eat at White owned restaurants, earn White Male sanctioned college degrees, vote for White politicians, shop at White owned stores, follow White religions (Christianity is not for Black people) and carry White first/last names and expect this inter-marrying white washing thing to stop. Get real. Separate from them or continue to suffer in depressed confusion or worse.
The real purpose of intermarriage in Latin America has always been to destroy the brown and black populations. Mexico once had a large black population that disappeared due to intermarriage. Whites know that they are the racial minority in Latin America and have brainwashed blacks and browns to hate themselves. Through intermarriage, whites in Latin America hope to “whiten” the population.
Too many blacks in Brazil and Latin American have been taught by racist whites to hate their African heritage and ancestry.
I agree. That’s sad but very true. We need more pride in ourselves.
I don’t know who’s more self hating: These Negros in America or Latin America. smdh
These Negro men need to stop fooling themselves that they really love these ww they sure aren’t fooling any body else.
The intermarrying is also a primary reason why blacks do not rise as fast as others do. When black men who gain wealth suddenly run out and spread their wealth with non-black groups what he is doing is helping to build up a group of people who already are built up than doing his duty to his own. Jews knew this, and when they left Europe in the 40s they married themselves and built their wealth amongst themselves, now that they are collectively a powerful group economically they can afford to marry whomever they want, but they first did their duty to each other first.
Blacks are not at that place mentally, as soon as one in the group gain some level of wealth and fame the first thing they do is look for a non-black woman to share it with. So it’s forever lopsided, one group continually getting wealthier and the other forever working 10 times as hard to get their financial footing. They will come and tell you love has no colour and blah, blah, blah. They will never tell you that the programming that they receive is at play, and that deep down they do not believe a black woman is deserving of a life of ease or leisure. Even in their eyes they see the black woman as a work horse, while the white woman is deserving of all the beautiful things and a good life.
The power of slavery is not in the physical labour that men and women had to do. The real power of slavery is in the mental control that have conditioned a people for centuries, that even today a black man of wealth and some accomplishment does not see a black woman as deserving of sharing that wealth with him, but Massa’s offspring is and should be the only one fitting to sit in the big house, and wear the ball gowns, that is true power of slavery that so many black men carry with them today – they do not see black women as equals. What a sad state for a black man’s mind to exist in. I can only hope that they wake out of their coma one day.
Because of segregation and Jim Crow, African-Americans were forced to adopt a black identity. They could never run from their blackness. Blacks could not marry whites. This is why America has a large black population that embraces their African heritage.
Blacks in Latin America have brainwashed by whites to intermarry with other whites in the hopes of making blacks disappear from Latin America. Intermarriage is a form of genocide used by whites in Latin America against blacks and browns.
Subconsciously, people know this. But consciously facing it and rejecting it is another thing.
You are so right, especially the part about Jews sticking together. I do not and cannot understand what it is wrong with Black men as whole. I cannot fathom why they don’t look at their situation in the world, they are the most powerless men that God and humanity have ever known, it is utterly embarrasing. They have no innate desire to honour, cherish, protect, love their natural counterpart: the Black women. I do not see a collective desire to build safe communities (e.g. in particular for Brazil, Black women 99% of the time inhabit very violent spaces), build collective wealth for their offspring and for later generations and other masculine norms.
Black men as whole do not really care about their race, so, do not see what Black women can do, what can we do?
A Redenção de Cam (The Redemption of Ham). This painting exemplifies the “whitening” that is encouraged by racist whites on Brazil’s Black population.
Yes it is…
What advice do you give for the children of these marriages? I mean… it is one thing to ask Black men and women to stick with their races and not inter-race marriage, but once this is done.. what than? I think children from inter-race marriages cannot really be blamed… I’m not even talking about the child’s race.. I mean if both parents are already mixed, the child could well just think he/she is black, but if one of the parents is clearly white that’s a whole different confusion. I’m just saying that we really cannot blame children for whatever whitening or blackning their parents decided.
Do you disagree?
Thanks.
Uma vez convidei 2 amigos negros meu pra sair com 3 garotas. Uma delas era branca, que era a minha ficante e as duas eram negras muito bonitas. Então chamei os meus “amigos” pra sair e eles recuram porque acharam ruim eu ficar com a “branquinha” e deixar “as neguinhas” pra eles. Eles falaram que só sairiam comigo se eu chamasse umas “branquinhas” pra ficar com eles. Depois disso nunca mais falei com eles. O homem negro que repudia a própria etnia, consegue ser pior do que o branco racista. Ambos ignorantes, mas o negro racista…pior!
Isaac, vc é branco ou negro?
Já vi muita negra bonita, inteligente e saudável ser trocada por mulheres brancas sem sal. Mas o negócio é o seguinte: “ser branca é o que importa”.
What advice do you give for the children of these marriages? I mean… it is one thing to ask Black men and women to stick with their races and not inter-race marriage, but once this is done.. what than? I think children from inter-race marriages cannot really be blamed… I’m not even talking about the child’s race.. I mean if both parents are already mixed, the child could well just think he/she is black, but if one of the parents is clearly white that’s a whole different confusion. I’m just saying that we really cannot blame children for whatever whitening or blackning their parents decided.
Do you disagree?
Thanks.
Most biracial (Half black and Half white) people in Latin America choose to identify with their white European heritage and most end up marrying whites to continue the process of “whitening.” In Latin America, being “black” is looked down up while white European culture is worshiped!
In the United States, because African-Americans are willing to fight racism perpetrated against them by whites, African-American have a strong sense of pride in their African heritage. US President Barack Obama could have easily chosen to embrace his white heritage, but because of the strength of America’s African-American culture, he embraced his African heritage and married a darker skinned black woman (much like my own hero, Malcolm X). Many biracial people in the United States are far more willing to identify as Black than in Latin America where a culture of “whitening” is encouraged.
I totally agree.
Thanks for your comment! And let me be clear, this is not as simple as pointing a finger of blame at any one individual. What we see in Brazil is the dominance of “all things white” as the standard for all things! Whether we speak of beauty, money, power, intelligence, whatever…In a system in which ALL are indoctrinated to worship all things white over all others, the situation is unbalanced from the beginning.
I would also say, to a certain degree, ALL non-white children are taught from a very early age to desire whiteness. This includes black or mixed-black children. The search for whiteness may be stronger for a child with a white parent because they have close contact everyday. But it is also strong in persons who have two black parents because of the stigma associated with blackness directly impacts them as their features are closer to those despised.
Often times, in interracial unions, as a few articles here touch on, the black parent is often mute on racial issues in the home, thus indirectly influencing the mixed children to identify with their white parent in terms of which race has more value.
As such, this issue you raised is not something that can be changed on an individual basis because the society is saturated with the ideology of white supremacy. In Brazil, as in other Latin American countries, there are NO displays or promotions of non-whiteness for non-whites to identify with. Being that there is no resistance to the ideology of embranquecimento, we can see the results in the adoration of white women/men and the desire to be loved and accepted by whites. Even when people identify themselves as black, subconsciously, the desire for whiteness remains present whether one realizes/admits it or not.
Good question, but whitening on all levels of society is such that, we can’t simply look at the effect but rather the causes.
There’s a much simpler answer to all this that black women always leave out:
White women, on average, are more physically attractive than black women.
And it’s not only black men that think that, check out the online dating studies they’ve done where black women always rank last. I’m a black man, but that’s the cold truth.
I cannot endorse this type of thinking! Our taste, values, views, etc. are ALL socially manufactured. Everything we think, from what car we buy, to eating fast food (that is literally trash), to political elections, to our mate selection is socially manufactured. I don’t think we can freely judge ANY of selections as purely individual selection. I DO believe that whatever racial group is in control can use the media to impose value standards upon those that are not part of their group. I won’t develop a thesis on this, but suffice it say, your view is simply proof of how propaganda works!
You’re a complete moron! Stop spreading your whitewashed mentality! We don’t need that type of garbage on this blog! Be gone FOOL!!!
Unlike your truth, my truth is different. The most beautiful people I have ever had the pleasure of gazing my eyes upon were a group of nomadic people in the African desert, these people, men and women were beauty redefined, the documentary is out there.
Women like Agbani Darego, Yvonne Okoro, Tiwa Savage, Toolz, Annie Macauley, Carla Campbell, Naomi Campbell, Iman, Kola Boof, Isha Sesay, Tamron Hall. I don’t have all night to list out stunning women of darker hues and I haven’t even covered most of the continent, just mostly West Africa women, or women of that descent. Many of these women I have listed do not have one drop of white blood in them and they are all stunning. My sister dated a guy who did some engineering project in Ghana, he told her the most shocking thing for him was that he did not expect to see so many pretty girls there. See, he too had the belief that African women were at the bottom, until he went somewhere filled with African women and was blown away by their beauty that he had to mention it, my sister isn’t even Ghanaian. Man, go to Africa, the seat of blackness, and come back and tell me about your dating site study..lol. You don’t expect a dating site whose clientele is predominantly white to uplift whiteness? Don’t they dump criminality and evil at your feet as a black man, so why would you expect them to give the beauty card to black women?..lol. See, you were so quick to believe them that your brain didn’t even process that thought, you just ran with their study as gospel truth. NO group has a monopoly on beauty!
I feel sad for you, I really do. Normally I would blast your ignorant statement, but it must take a ‘special’ kind of man whose lifeform was incubated in a black woman’s body, whose nourishment came from the breast of a black woman, and still that man can look at that image and say it is not attractive, or as attractive compared to something else. Any man who would denounce the beauty of his own motherseed is hardly a man. No matter what exists in this world, true men know that denouncing their own motherseed is spiritual suicide, so they don’t venture there. That you are brave enough to go there already tell me that you are an almost empty vessel, if not already fully empty. Goodluck!
These interracial marriages are not a product manufactured by love but are a product manufactured and sponsored by white supremacy! The process of whitening over dark skinned peoples was a process dating back to the Germanic tribes and the Romans! The majority of the population of the globe is majority of dark complexion then this fact makes us the first people to be appeared on earth!
These unions occur especially in countries former slaveholders or European countries that have dominated Africa in the past! So this complex to get married with a white person is deviant behavior and sick goes back of slavery era!
Black people were more combative and united in the past now when whites have given us a false equality of rights, black people fell asleep!
Do not complain if the whites insult you and call you nigger! Or if they have shot a black or deprive your voice and of your rights! If these whites have this arrogance is to treat bad you because you have begun to marry with them, live with them, sleep with them and have kids with them! Stop being nice to them because they will never be with you! The fact that a white get married you does not mean it is not racist because you gave him the chance to insult your people!
In some bloggers I read some racist comments of white women with biracial children that they insult black women! I am tired of hearing biracial people insult black people and go on TV and they start cry because they are ashamed to be black!
Even if they don’t put us chains around our necks slavery still exists today and I wish say where did we leave our dignity as being human?
What James said is utter nonsense! I’m from the U.S where we have our own group of fine sistas. I’m not even from Brazil, but all you have to do is look at the pictures offered to us on this website, to conclude that on average, black women are more attractive than white women. They have what they have with no alteration! No lip job, no boob job, no butt shots, nothing. White women desire the lips, the hips, the backside, those things are the hallmarks of black women. White women are constantly biting off a sistas style and the brothas allow them to do it. Honestly black women shouldn’t have to straighten their hair, they should keep it curly, because eventually white girls would attempt to bite that style too, no question. Black people be yourself… they’re going to copy eventually.
Actually, what I read in this article was that in Brazil less than 40% of BM marry BW and 50% of BW marry BM. Seems pretty even to me or maybe I’m missing something.
In the U.S. 10% of BW marry non-BM, while close to 30% of BM marry non-BW.
Personally, I advocate BW loving and marrying whoever loves them regardless of race. I’m not into this “only marry a Brother” mentality. BM abandoning BW seems to be an age-old, worldwide phenomena and I don’t think BW should waste their whole lives waiting for their “Black King”. Move on and be happy. Life is short.
What are white men saying about so many white women marrying black men? Often much is made about black women’s opposition to BM/WW marriages. What about white men’s opposition to such marriages?
Nothing because if white men opposed such relationships, they’d be considered racists. Only black people have this right nowadays.
as usual , the blog owner tries to skew statistics, but, they state a lot of interesting things blowing a lot of the generalisations out of the water…
if black women in brazil are suposed to be so unatractive and not wanted by black brazilian men, why is their 70 percent intra race marrying?
your slight of hand at defining pardo is well noted here , gringo blog owner. the majority of black brazilian women are married to black brazilian men so they are desired by black black brazilian men.
yet the fantacy bs rolls heavy, the fairy tales, the generalisations the stigmatation
the whole whitening of brazil is another thing that gets mischaractorised. there is no doubt that italian and german immigrants were welcome to bring more whiteness into brazil…but , even if you can find some private notes from the elite wishing their was race mixture, there is no huge evidence that there was a national campain to have white people marry and produce mixed babies.
or, lets see it…and, for gods sake , one painting is not any kind of evidence that there was a national campain for interracial unions and mixed race kids. and if its true there was a national campain, there should be huge amounts of evidence…this wasnt from centuries ago, this was recent and if there was national propagance for this , it should be huge and a lot of it…so cut the bs..and show it, if you can
what there wasnt was a violent kkk type southern white usa mentality raging to prevent interracial unions, so, if people wanted to inter marry , there were less bariors, yet , i still think there was plenty of social white not wanting to have an afro descendent enter their family…you dont see huge amounts of white people and black people as interracial unions walking around on the street…your naive commenters are seeing pros at work when they testify to seeing so much of that…
and , how tired, just using celebrities as some baromoter of what is happening, that is so tired…people building political agendas out of celebrity watching and stereotyping and generalising…wow, i guess it just shows how digital age internet cyber space is so celebrity awed…they live their lives vicariously through celebrities
the usual tripe from anti interracial union disguntled people with a vendetta…who cant look at the truth of men and women have a lot of issues and black men and black women have a lot of issues…how weak to make this an anti interracial agenda
you dont build self esteem on the cheap, bashing people who are in interracial unions …throwing other black people under the bus wont make you feel the real quality self esteem , its only a temporary venting…
i dont trust anyone in this world who tries to regulate peoples sexuality, starting with the white wash, but including the racial deviders
by the way, all the books , philosophers , scholars, university crap that is trying to say white people promote race mixing to destroy the black race, and its genocide, might as well have been make up on a back porch passing the corn whiskey around…really petty, shallow, low leval theorising…
anyone saying white people are wanting genocide just arnt getting it…especualy if they think white people are promoting race mixing to destroy the black race…foolish…i dont care if fannon and nascimento said it together its total bs
its about white racism, which is bad enough in itself , you dont have to mix fairy tales in , as a matter of fact, the fairy tales take the eye off the real problems…they really do…
You’re so very funny gringo commenter! Don’t have time right now but I’ll get at you when I have more time. I don’t know why I bother. If you’re right in your mind, what’s the point? But when I have the time I’ll drop some more logic on you.
I think I’m about done wasting my time with your one-sided comments using the same comments again and again…
Here are my rebuttals, perhaps for the last time…Your debate covers no new ground and your unwillingness to respond to the points I make or engage outside your same points makes this a useless conversation and a waste of my time…
I’m coming to the end of my rope with you and will keep my focus on the material while you continue to ignore…With that said, feel free to ignore these responses as you usually do.
“why is their 70 percent intra race marrying?”
Well, besides the points I made yesterday about not being able to truly know stats on race in Brazil, there is the fact that you make the error of just considering official marriages and not including short/long term relationships, which in essence are difficult to measure. For example, in the US, one stat suggested that up to 25% of black men in a certain age bracket lived with women that were not black.
Also, within numbers we can’t just look at the totals which in themselves don’t tell the whole story. We need to consider the numerous black women who waited much longer periods of time to manage a long-lasting relationship or marriage. Stats show that white women on average marry earlier in life than black women. There are posts on this blog where women talk of their experience with this. There is also another study here where a researcher says that black women with upper levels of education tend not to get married, white women in the same bracket marry white men while black men with a lot of education, good salaries and jobs marry white women. One study in SP found that 48 of 50 black execs were married to white women. There’s no official stat in general, but I know that number would once again prove the point.
You also assume that simply because 70% of blacks are married to other blacks that that in itself doesn’t negate the existence of the desire for whiter partners. I’ve seen plenty of cases of black men leaving their black wives and marrying or dating white women. I’ve seen families broken up by that, but again, you ignore this. There’s a report on this blog in which black women say that even with education and good income, black men of lower status than them will make certain demands of them just to commit to them, as if they had some sort of social capital that they don’t even have. What we must consider is the actual emotional health of the black community in terms of identity and we’ve seen over and over that many blacks have been indoctrinated to appreciate whiteness. Why would that not apply to relationships? The recent article by the black man admitting how he grew up in a culture in which black girls were belittled while white girls were put on a pedestal is further evidence of this. Clearly by choosing to ignore all of this, this is not a conversation you are prepared to have.
“even if you can find some private notes from the elite wishing their was race mixture, there is no huge evidence that there was a national campain to have white people marry and produce mixed babies.”
Actually, when I looked into this years ago, I found numerous white Brazilian elites all predicting how long it would take for the black race to disappear. This is documented. Some wished for 40 years, other 80, some 100 years. That evidence exists.
“one painting is not any kind of evidence that there was a national campain for interracial unions and mixed race kids.”
A painting depicting the desire of a whiter Brazil does indeed show that this ideology did/does exist. Throughout history we’ve seen numerous political comics, art and paintings that express political ideals. Again, you choose to ignore. Why would such a painting even exist? Can you explain that?
“there should be huge amounts of evidence…”
The huge amounts of evidence you seek are within black families themselves. Numerous books that you choose to ignore reveal how black men and women are educuated by their own families to whiten, “arrumar uma branquinha”, is clear proof. Because you don’t want to deal with this, I expect you ignore this point also, as you never respond to these points but continue your rants. Over the years I’ve heard stories from black men and women, too many to count, about how their parents were insistent that they marry whites so that the family is whitened and the children are born with “good hair”. Books from the 1960s and even now discuss how Brazilian families treat their children different according to their proximity to whiteness and how one of the first things they look for when a new baby is born is the skin color. Go ahead, ignore that too. The evidence is in the people itself. The latest book to point this out is the “Color of Love” but feel free to ignore that too.
Other pieces of evidence are the billboards, advertisements, novelas and films. You hardly EVER see two black people in a relationship in the media. Many are picking up on this, but as usual you will ignore.
“you dont see huge amounts of white people and black people as interracial unions walking around on the street”
I already touched on this yesterday. But as I said, it’s funny when I ask people to pay attention to this, they in fact notice it too.
“just using celebrities as some baromoter of what is happening, that is so tired…”
Well, as you obviously don’t know how propaganda works, I won’t bother explaining it. Seriously, you should educate yourself on this and stopped being so bull-headed. I don’t point to celebrities or top jogadores de futebol because they run the society, but the fact is that people in general public DO worship the lives of celebrities. And as such, if we are speaking of this topic seriously, we must ask, why are Tais Araujo/Lazaro Ramos, Erico Bras/Kenya Maria Dias two of very few black man/black woman couples of public recognition in Brazilian society? It once again speaks to the ideology that says, “I’m successful and only a white person can reflect this success.” Again, over the years people tell me how this soccer player or that one dated black women most of his life, but when he came into money, he got a white girl. Very common story here. Again, this refers to my previous point. Simply because 70% of blacks are married to other blacks doesn’t mean it’s the end of story. Whiteness, as another article on this blog, comes with a price. As far back as the 1960s, social scientists already pointed out that black Brazilians, specifically speaking of men, will marry whites even of lower status. The thinking here is the black person trades his stigma (color) with a white person that trades their stigma (lower class). In “Color of Love” the author highlights how many black Brazilians see this also. They speak on how they know black men who put up with white women who treat them terribly because they are white. This is something we cannot measure with just numbers.
The article on “interracial couples as a symbol of racism in Brazil” details this trade off. I am not the only one seeing this, but hey, you go on with your narrow minded views….
“they live their lives vicariously through celebrities”
Many people do. If they didn’t, TV wouldn’t be such a powerful mechanism.
“university crap that is trying to say white people promote race mixing to destroy the black race, and its genocide”
Ignore if you like, but those who have studied this topic know the truth (we find hints of this throughout Latin America) and now the plan for white genocide is in full effect, but that’s another topic all together. But go ahead and ignore that too. People die from a lack of knowledge.
“i dont care if fannon and nascimento said it together its total bs”
Fine. You continue to prove that this is not a conversation you can handle or debate.
“its about white racism, which is bad enough in itself , you dont have to mix fairy tales in , as a matter of fact, the fairy tales take the eye off the real problems”
Blah blah blah. You come with the same points in all of your comments while ignoring the various points I make. End of discussion.
HAHAHA!! Not at all. I simply have no more time to debate someone who consistently says he doesn’t accept studies and opinions that go against what he believes, presents the same arguments over and over and NEVER responds to points that I take a lot of time to point out.
Here’s my thing. We differ about certain things. And that will certainly never change, so why should I continue using my time to debate something that will never be resolved?
People who read this blog are free to come to this blog, read and contemplate the material and come to their own conclusions. And that will remain the same. But as far as you’re concerned, I’m done here.
No sense in continuing!
Have fun and love life!
Tchau!
Well, I feel for you too gringo in Brazil because you make the assumption that I still live in Detroit and that all of my views come from “books, Facebook and an annual visit, sometimes two times in a year”.
hahaha….enlighten me
Enlighten you? On certain topics I don’t think it’s possible…
well i meant , are you in brazil ? that would be enlighening…but, one thing i can say for sure, you and me will be gringo foresteiros for the rest of our lives….im a gringo immigrant…
but, i apreciete your empathy that you feel for me too….